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Bedford CF-UK Message Board > CF Questions > What could this be? Engine issues!

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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	What could this be? Engine issues! What could this be?? (I'm sure it's very simple) We just got our lovely vintage cf 1971) mot'd and driven to my friends driveway, although when it was halfway up a hill, loads and loads of oil started spewing out of it and then it lost all ability to drive... The clutch would engage and the revs were going but something wasn't clicking and it would not go forward When we stopped, there appeared to be a tube going to a filter that had popped off, which we can only assume was the problem? We are just wondering where to look really, obviously there is a problem with the oil, it was coming out the top of the engine, not the bottom and the line that was popped off definitely wasn't causing that leak... We are gutted of course because we got it mot'd and hoped that it would be drivable which it obviously isn't, going to go and have a look at it in more detail over the next couple of weeks, but wondered if anyone had found similar after a service and could offer any help? Thank you x ----------------------
Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 18:37
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	hi it sounds like the breathers are blocked, ie the tube that came off will be full of carbon and gunge. check all the breather pipes, the rockerbox as a gauze filter in side so that will need to be cleaned as well. richard ----------------------
Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 18:53
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Thanks! Would they not have done that in a service? It sounds simple enough to fix anyway, would that have made the oil leak out too?
Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 20:31
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	They donot always do it on service. If the engine builds up to much pressure as it sounds like then oil will leak out. It happened to me once. Richard ----------------------
Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 20:43
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Oil leak/s and loss of drive may or may not be connected. Check clutch cable adjustment at the clutch fork (bit that pokes out of the clutch housing at the back of the engine) - Correct adjustment is 0.22 inch (5.6mm) of free play; 5mm should be sufficient. If there's no drive at this adjustment then the clutch may be worn out or soaked in oil if enough has found its way into the clutch housing but that means LOTS of oil in the clutch housing first for the clutch to be soaked. Oil leak/s from the top of the engine could be due to a blocked gauze in the camshaft cover but if air and, or, oil mist/fume comes out of the spigot at the rear of the cover when the engine is running then the gauze is clear. If the hose attached to the spigot has fallen off from the air cleaner case then that alone can lead to oil spreading everywhere especially if the sump has been over-filled, or the small bore pipe that should be connected to a branch on the hose is missing, disconnected or blocked up: pipe should be attached to the intake manifold beneath the carburettor. Commonest source of oil leaks at the top of the engine is the camshaft cover (cork) gasket; leakage here usually lands on the exhaust manifold leading to smoke collecting in the cab. ----------------------
Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 20:57
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Thank you SO much, everyone who has suggested stuff, we will check all of these things... Personally I am more excited about making curtains/ decking out the inside with a raised bed etc but my husband assures me it all makes sense to him and he will be able to act on all your advice and get it sorted... One more question, if this is possible to answer, there are surely things that it would be good for us to replace/check before we get it on the road properly, if anyone has the time or inclination, could you possible tell us what you would recommend we pay attention to, before driving it any distance? Our aim is to convert it to LPG before the summer but we wish to make sure it is working properly before then. Thank you so much, though a mission, our van is one of the very last coach built bedfords and we are so happy it is nearly on the road. Thank you x
Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 21:08
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	feeble wrote: One more question, if this is possible to answer, there are surely things that it would be good for us to replace/check before we get it on the road properly, if anyone has the time or inclination, could you possible tell us what you would recommend we pay attention to, before driving it any distance? Em. Lots to check if the van hasn't been on the road for a while ... Our aim is to convert it to LPG before the summer but we wish to make sure it is working properly before then. Prioritise getting the engine right, starting with a cylinder compression check. However, first have a look at the cylinder head on the exhaust manifold side. What you're looking for is 4 small core plugs along the lower edge of the cylinder head - If there are 4 core plugs then it's the early cylinder head without rotator caps on the exhaust valves and will be prone to rapid exhaust valve and seat damage if run on LPG even with Flashlube or similar upper cylinder lubricant to compensate for unleaded petrol. If there's no core plugs - then it's the later head with rotator caps. However, even with rotator caps the head will require hard exhaust valves seats for LPG if it's going to last and, for good, measure, stainless steel exhaust valves to prevent face/seat micro-welding that causes valve and seat damage. The early head without rotator caps also can be converted but stainless steel exhaust valves then will be mandatory along with hard valve seats for LPG. A later head with rotator caps would be a better way though but finding a good (not cracked) head at a sensible price can take a while unless you're lucky. Also, installing a later head only is possible on the 1.8 and 2.3 litre engines; head for the 1.6 and 2.0 litre engines is different (& different again if the high compression version). Actually doing the job of converting for LPG isn't that difficult if done correctly: needs a good machine shop that can follow instructions on finished valve stem height to within 0.010 inch, after which it's a bit labour intensive but achievable as DiY with basic tools, a torque wrench and buckets of patience. Do a cylinder compression check anyway: this will be a good guide to what state the engine is in. What's involved in converting a slant engine head for LPG and also removal and replacement already are in the Howto section. ----------------------
Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 22:07
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Thanks Phil, we'll be paying someone to convert professionally but will certainly do the checks on the cylinders before that. He asked us the age of the vehicle when we asked for a quote (along with make obviously) so I assume he is able to convert this type of vehicle... Thanks for the advice, the engine has been sat a while but is a runner and has been checked by a couple of mechanics and obviously had its mot... We will start with cleaning everything, checking the cylinders etc Just wondered if we should just replace certain caps or valves as a matter of urgency, if it's not that defined, I think we will probably just wing it and see what we come up with! There is a good garage down the road from us who will be able to give us a list of 'issues' that need addressing if we take it in, but obviously would rather pre-empt that with just getting basic usual things sorted first. Guess its just a case ot studying the Haynes and going through bit by bit...
Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 22:23
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Don't take the Haynes manual too literally; it's an abridged version of the original GM manuals & they were riddled with errors & omissions only corrected in later supplements and technical bulletins. Also, & probably more important, a lot of the information assumes a level of understanding beyond most people new to CFs including motor trade unless you can find someone old enough to remember how to fix them properly ... which is one reason why CF Questions is popular. Meanwhile, if the engine is running ok then it's probably best to tidy up the ignition system first (biggest source of running problems), check/adjust valve clearances if not already done, and sort out any cooling system problems (leaks, running too cool or too hot) that show up. Carburettor is the last thing to disturb unless there's any obvious fault/s; twiddling it before getting the rest of the engine adjustments right can be a waste of time and petrol. When you get round to tinkering with the cylinder head the machine shop that you use must be aware that valve stem height of 1.13 inch as stated in the Haynes (& GM) manual is the absolute maximum for 2nd under-size tappet adjuster screws; finished height to re-use standard adjuster screws (& thus restore head to standard for long service life) is 1.06 to 1.07 inch and to achieve this the seats must be machined to suit the valves; grinding the valve stems should not be done because the valve spring cap can foul the tappet screw boss when under-size adjuster screws are installed & if this happens the valve can drop into the cylinder if the retaining collets become dislodged. A BIG plug to sign up as a card holder: gives you access to all the forum (except Admin) & as many posts as you need to sort out details when the head is done & any problems that you will come across along the way. ----------------------
Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 23:06
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	we have been planning to sign up, was going to eek out my 5 free posts first :) should have some money next week so expect me irritating you all in the 'special' sections We are lucky in the respect that my husband is training to be a mechanical engineer/tool maker, so he is going to be able to machine parts for us (and within reason, anyone else who needs the odd random bit of metal ) The guys up the road, are vintage vehicle specialist and when i spoke to them last time, they told me they had worked on many bedfords which is fabulous.; thanks for all your help :) will see you in the 'cardholder' sections shortly!
Sun 29 Jan 2012 @ 10:06
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	feeble wrote: We are lucky in the respect that my husband is training to be a mechanical engineer/tool maker, so he is going to be able to machine parts for us (and within reason, anyone else who needs the odd random bit of metal ) will see you in the 'cardholder' sections shortly! Quote. With this lot on here could be a money spinning business ? ----------------------
Sun 29 Jan 2012 @ 11:53
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	just hoping we can help out those who help out us hey :) xxx
Sun 29 Jan 2012 @ 12:25
Time in GMT

Author

Message

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

What could this be? Engine issues!

What could this be?? (I'm sure it's very simple)

We just got our lovely vintage cf 1971) mot'd and driven to my friends driveway, although when it was halfway up a hill, loads and loads of oil started spewing out of it and then it lost all ability to drive... The clutch would engage and the revs were going but something wasn't clicking and it would not go forward

When we stopped, there appeared to be a tube going to a filter that had popped off, which we can only assume was the problem?

We are just wondering where to look really, obviously there is a problem with the oil, it was coming out the top of the engine, not the bottom and the line that was popped off definitely wasn't causing that leak...

We are gutted of course because we got it mot'd and hoped that it would be drivable which it obviously isn't, going to go and have a look at it in more detail over the next couple of weeks, but wondered if anyone had found similar after a service and could offer any help?

Thank you x

----------------------

Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 18:37

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

hi it sounds like the breathers are blocked, ie the tube that came off will be full of carbon and gunge. check all the breather pipes, the rockerbox as a gauze filter in side so that will need to be cleaned as well.
richard

----------------------

Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 18:53

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

Thanks! Would they not have done that in a service? It sounds simple enough to fix anyway, would that have made the oil leak out too?

Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 20:31

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

They donot always do it on service. If the engine builds up to much pressure as it sounds like then oil will leak out. It happened to me once.
Richard

----------------------

Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 20:43

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

Oil leak/s and loss of drive may or may not be connected.

Check clutch cable adjustment at the clutch fork (bit that pokes out of the clutch housing at the back of the engine) -

Correct adjustment is 0.22 inch (5.6mm) of free play; 5mm should be sufficient.

If there's no drive at this adjustment then the clutch may be worn out or soaked in oil if enough has found its way into the clutch housing but that means LOTS of oil in the clutch housing first for the clutch to be soaked.

Oil leak/s from the top of the engine could be due to a blocked gauze in the camshaft cover but if air and, or, oil mist/fume comes out of the spigot at the rear of the cover when the engine is running then the gauze is clear.

If the hose attached to the spigot has fallen off from the air cleaner case then that alone can lead to oil spreading everywhere especially if the sump has been over-filled, or the small bore pipe that should be connected to a branch on the hose is missing, disconnected or blocked up: pipe should be attached to the intake manifold beneath the carburettor.

Commonest source of oil leaks at the top of the engine is the camshaft cover (cork) gasket; leakage here usually lands on the exhaust manifold leading to smoke collecting in the cab.

----------------------

Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 20:57

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

Thank you SO much, everyone who has suggested stuff, we will check all of these things...

Personally I am more excited about making curtains/ decking out the inside with a raised bed etc but my husband assures me it all makes sense to him and he will be able to act on all your advice and get it sorted...

One more question, if this is possible to answer, there are surely things that it would be good for us to replace/check before we get it on the road properly, if anyone has the time or inclination, could you possible tell us what you would recommend we pay attention to, before driving it any distance?

Our aim is to convert it to LPG before the summer but we wish to make sure it is working properly before then.

Thank you so much, though a mission, our van is one of the very last coach built bedfords and we are so happy it is nearly on the road. Thank you x

Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 21:08

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

feeble wrote:

One more question, if this is possible to answer, there are surely things that it would be good for us to replace/check before we get it on the road properly, if anyone has the time or inclination, could you possible tell us what you would recommend we pay attention to, before driving it any distance?

Em. Lots to check if the van hasn't been on the road for a while ...

Our aim is to convert it to LPG before the summer but we wish to make sure it is working properly before then.

Prioritise getting the engine right, starting with a cylinder compression check.

However, first have a look at the cylinder head on the exhaust manifold side. What you're looking for is 4 small core plugs along the lower edge of the cylinder head -

If there are 4 core plugs then it's the early cylinder head without rotator caps on the exhaust valves and will be prone to rapid exhaust valve and seat damage if run on LPG even with Flashlube or similar upper cylinder lubricant to compensate for unleaded petrol.

If there's no core plugs -

then it's the later head with rotator caps.

However, even with rotator caps the head will require hard exhaust valves seats for LPG if it's going to last and, for good, measure, stainless steel exhaust valves to prevent face/seat micro-welding that causes valve and seat damage.

The early head without rotator caps also can be converted but stainless steel exhaust valves then will be mandatory along with hard valve seats for LPG.

A later head with rotator caps would be a better way though but finding a good (not cracked) head at a sensible price can take a while unless you're lucky.

Also, installing a later head only is possible on the 1.8 and 2.3 litre engines; head for the 1.6 and 2.0 litre engines is different (& different again if the high compression version).

Actually doing the job of converting for LPG isn't that difficult if done correctly: needs a good machine shop that can follow instructions on finished valve stem height to within 0.010 inch, after which it's a bit labour intensive but achievable as DiY with basic tools, a torque wrench and buckets of patience.

Do a cylinder compression check anyway: this will be a good guide to what state the engine is in.

What's involved in converting a slant engine head for LPG and also removal and replacement already are in the Howto section.

----------------------

Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 22:07

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

Thanks Phil, we'll be paying someone to convert professionally but will certainly do the checks on the cylinders before that. He asked us the age of the vehicle when we asked for a quote (along with make obviously) so I assume he is able to convert this type of vehicle...

Thanks for the advice, the engine has been sat a while but is a runner and has been checked by a couple of mechanics and obviously had its mot...

We will start with cleaning everything, checking the cylinders etc

Just wondered if we should just replace certain caps or valves as a matter of urgency, if it's not that defined, I think we will probably just wing it and see what we come up with! There is a good garage down the road from us who will be able to give us a list of 'issues' that need addressing if we take it in, but obviously would rather pre-empt that with just getting basic usual things sorted first.

Guess its just a case ot studying the Haynes and going through bit by bit...

Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 22:23

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

Don't take the Haynes manual too literally; it's an abridged version of the original GM manuals & they were riddled with errors & omissions only corrected in later supplements and technical bulletins.

Also, & probably more important, a lot of the information assumes a level of understanding beyond most people new to CFs including motor trade unless you can find someone old enough to remember how to fix them properly ... which is one reason why CF Questions is popular.

Meanwhile, if the engine is running ok then it's probably best to tidy up the ignition system first (biggest source of running problems), check/adjust valve clearances if not already done, and sort out any cooling system problems (leaks, running too cool or too hot) that show up. Carburettor is the last thing to disturb unless there's any obvious fault/s; twiddling it before getting the rest of the engine adjustments right can be a waste of time and petrol.

When you get round to tinkering with the cylinder head the machine shop that you use must be aware that valve stem height of 1.13 inch as stated in the Haynes (& GM) manual is the absolute maximum for 2nd under-size tappet adjuster screws; finished height to re-use standard adjuster screws (& thus restore head to standard for long service life) is 1.06 to 1.07 inch and to achieve this the seats must be machined to suit the valves; grinding the valve stems should not be done because the valve spring cap can foul the tappet screw boss when under-size adjuster screws are installed & if this happens the valve can drop into the cylinder if the retaining collets become dislodged.

A BIG plug to sign up as a card holder: gives you access to all the forum (except Admin) & as many posts as you need to sort out details when the head is done & any problems that you will come across along the way.

----------------------

Sat 28 Jan 2012 @ 23:06

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

we have been planning to sign up, was going to eek out my 5 free posts first :)

should have some money next week so expect me irritating you all in the 'special' sections

We are lucky in the respect that my husband is training to be a mechanical engineer/tool maker, so he is going to be able to machine parts for us (and within reason, anyone else who needs the odd random bit of metal

)

The guys up the road, are vintage vehicle specialist and when i spoke to them last time, they told me they had worked on many bedfords which is fabulous.;

thanks for all your help :)

will see you in the 'cardholder' sections shortly!

Sun 29 Jan 2012 @ 10:06

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

feeble wrote:

We are lucky in the respect that my husband is training to be a mechanical engineer/tool maker, so he is going to be able to machine parts for us (and within reason, anyone else who needs the odd random bit of metal

)

will see you in the 'cardholder' sections shortly!

Quote. With this lot on here could be a money spinning business ?

----------------------

Sun 29 Jan 2012 @ 11:53

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

just hoping we can help out those who help out us hey :) xxx

Sun 29 Jan 2012 @ 12:25

Time in GMT

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